The Atlantic: The Singing Epidemic

[Bud]

Yes, Diana is covered but I think you'll understand why I put this here. Its in a pretty major pub so its hard to ignore:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200601/jazz-singers

I don't get these jazz critics who can't hear her swing. Its one thing Diana *can* do like no one else. I've heard her snap her fingers, and I swear you can feel it in two beats!

This guy and Nat Hentoff have zero credibility in my book

[gundy516]

I agree with you Bud. I just don't understand some of these so called critics. Diana CAN swing. She can SING too! I know even Diana herself says she has no range but I don't agree with that. I may be biased but I will listen to Diana over any other singer out there today. I sometimes think jazz critics think it's a bad thing that Diana has been successful and that's just a shame I think.

[christratton]

This guy and Nat Hentoff have zero credibility in my book

I only disagree in that the guy is entitled to his opinion: the fact that his differs from mine or yours or Sue's doesn't necessarily denigrate his credibility. Not everyone loves Diana - vive la difference, say I. Means there's more of her for us, so to speak, as far as I'm concerned.

-CS

[imnoangel1975]

Reading this critics words makes me wonder if he's even listened to Diana Krall. I completely disagree with him on all of his points and I wonder who, in fact, he's listening too, because it ain't Diana.

She's got swing and true, her vocal range isn't comparable to some of the older jazz and torch singers of distant past but she can interpret a song with depth, emotion and sexiness which no one else, in my opinion, can do nearly as well.

[Coda]

Okay, I read most of the article. I agree with Chris that the guy is entitled to his opinion. Granting that, I'm also entitled to mine. And for me, when Diana swings, my foot can't stop going up and down. I find her swing infectious. Too bad that Francis Davis and Nat Hentoff seem to have been vaccinated against Diana's brand of swing. Some of Diana's ballads are a little slower than others. There are only a few that don't click with me. But I don't expect anyone to bat .1000 with me. In my opinion, Diana shows great emotional depth on her ballads -- and in an understated manner. Understatement takes skill, regardless of the art form.

However, since the writer comments on Diana's marketing as "post feminist," I'd like to add a few words. It's obvious that Diana's marketing has changed over the years. In her first album, she's very covered up. With each new album, the photos and marketing change. Today, for example, I'd say it's rather formula to expect Diana's pictures to include cleavage. As a woman, I feel it might be easier for me to point that out than for the guys on this site. I have nothing against cleavage...it just that now it seems to be a required element (except for the photo gallery for "The Girl in the Other Room," which would be expected because of the subject matter of the album).

Marketing photos aside, I know I'm repeating myself here for some forum members, but Diana's appearance had nothing to do with my appreciation for her music. Her music "clicked" with me when I heard "Let's Face the Music and Dance" on a store sound system in Stratford, Ontario. When I first heard it, I was stunned. I thought she had truly captured the bossa nova flavor on a song that wasn't traditionally bossa nova. In fact, the last I had heard "Let's Face the Music and Dance," I think, was when Christopher Walkin did his "Continental" shtick on "Saturday Night Live." When Diana's song was done, I walked up to the store counter and asked the clerk who was singing on the sound system. I wanted to buy the CD then and there, but the store had sold out, so WILIYE immediately went on my Christmas wish list.

Anyway, I'm not often stunned by a musical performance, but when I am, it's wonderful for me. So I really don't understand where the writer is coming from.

[gundy516]

Coda you hit it on the head exactly! I can't fathom why someone would not think that Diana's music can't 'swing'. My first song I heard was 'East of the Sun, West of the Moon' off the 'Live in Paris' album. I was looking at cd's at a store and saw the album, put the headphones on to 'sample' the music and was hooked. I bought the cd and when I got in my car put it in and started driving and listening and since then I've been hooked also. All I can say too is everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I just don't know where these people who write these articles have been hiding!

[Bud]

We all know the criticisms of Diana, and I understand most of them, even if I don't necessarily agree. As Chris correctly points out, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

But the rhythm one throws me. Its in a different league than the other criticisms, especially since its the one area where Diana actually gives herself some credit - "I think I have a good feel" - or something like that. She said that's why she wanted to have a chance to play with the greats - to see what it felt like, rhythm-wise.

To give them a little benefit of the doubt, if I were to actually to try to get to the bottom of this, I'd first find out what they actually listened to. Its interesting that even though the article is about vocalists, Mr. Davis never mentions that Diana also plays the piano, which is an unusual omission.

Here are links to bios of the persons of interest. They are both distinguished jazz journalists. Interestingly, neither bio highlights any background as musicians - not that it necessarily matters. Nat Hentoff has produced some jazz albums.

Francis Davis - the husband of NPR's Terry Gross!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Davis

Nat Hentoff: http://jazztimes.com/columnS_and_featur ... entoff.cfm

[Coda]

That's a good point, Bud. If I were doing an article interviewing these critics, that's one of those questions I'd like to ask: what songs have you listened to? In other words, on what part of Diana's catalog are you basing your opinion? Each album has a different flavor, and I might say, represents a different milestone in Diana's evolution as a musician. That has to be the case for any performer who is NOT a one-hit wonder. Elton John's voice has deepened over the years, as well as Gordon Lightfoot's. Compare the Beatles in "Hard Day's Night" to the Beatles in "Yellow Submarine" to "Abbey Road."

But still, I SO disagree with the idea that Diana doesn't have swing. I think that's the consistent element in all of Diana's albums -- when she swings, she really swings!

[christratton]

I agree, Coda, about the swing aspect. And I will say this, having listened heavily to Diana, I have arrived at the following conclusion about her primary, non-Christmas Songs albums, plus the few extras off of The Very Best:

I have about three tiers of Diana songs:

1. Typified by "I Remember You," "East of the Sun," "Let's Fall In Love," "The Best Thing for You". I LOVE these songs and would happily just about hard wire them into my brain so I could listen to them in the best quality sound upon merely thinking about them. Bright, beautiful, spirited, intense, gorgeous, the positive adjectives flow with ease. These songs constitute about 1/3 of her catalog.

2. Typified by "Boulevard of," "Stop This World," "Day In, Day Out." I like these songs a lot, but they more easily feel over-listened. Good stuff, on less frequent rotation. About 55% of her catalog, give or take.

3. Typified by, sorry to say, don't mean to step on any toes, "Peel Me a Grape," "From This Moment On" and "The Heart of Saturday Night." In short, not so much.

For me at least, I find it hard to see where people couldn't like 1, and 2 is a very nice assemblage. 3, well, heck, no one's immortal, we all have feet of clay. And I will say, there are a few of DK's which about drive me up a wall, but again, that's true of every musical artist I've ever come across. Music which fails, to a given person's ears, can be PAINFUL. I just stay away from those which induce the pain response.

But I ramble. These guys are out of their minds. Too bad for them.

-CS

[christratton]

Okay, I read most of the article. I agree with Chris that the guy is entitled to his opinion. Granting that, I'm also entitled to mine. And for me, when Diana swings, my foot can't stop going up and down. I find her swing infectious. Too bad that Francis Davis and Nat Hentoff seem to have been vaccinated against Diana's brand of swing. Some of Diana's ballads are a little slower than others. There are only a few that don't click with me. But I don't expect anyone to bat .1000 with me. In my opinion, Diana shows great emotional depth on her ballads -- and in an understated manner. Understatement takes skill, regardless of the art form.

... Diana's appearance had nothing to do with my appreciation for her music. Her music "clicked" with me when I heard "Let's Face the Music and Dance" on a store sound system in Stratford, Ontario. ...

Anyway, I'm not often stunned by a musical performance, but when I am, it's wonderful for me. So I really don't understand where the writer is coming from.

I wholly agree, Coda, and my experience was much like yours. I had just bought my iPod and friends were lending me albums to load onto my beloved new toy (I know, I know, mea culpa maxima). One of my office mates - quizzically enough, a 60-ish, hard-boiled, intense, jewish New York-born tax attorney who loves country far and away more than does this Arkie bumpkin who grew up listening to the stuff - lent me a bunch of country (most of which I ended up hating and off-loading from the pod) and this one album, The Look of Love by this woman, Diana Krall, of whom I'd heard a favorable thing or two on NPR and the like, and whose freebie From This Moment On cd single I'd picked up a couple months before at Borders.

Loaded all the country and ol' DK onto the pod. Went to bed and put TLOL on under the earbuds. WOW! I was captivated. Just captivated. Her stuff was a magic carpet dream ride for me. I still nearly swoon at "I Remember You" after 700+ listens in about 310 days, and the other 9 songs are pretty good, too. Gorgeous, magical stuff. Didn't care a flip what she looked like - though I confess her attractiveness helps matters, but most of what I find attractive about her is her intense, magnetic spirit, her genius.

I respect Nat Hentoff and anyone else's right not to like Diana, but as I said, as far as I'm concerned, that just means more for me and the rest of her fans.

-CS

[jazzygal karla]

Guaranteed these fellows didn't listen to any of Diana's pre-2000 albums. I still love listening to Steppin' Out. Of course she's matured in many, many ways since that debut effort, but it's so great to hear her just play. When people who've been in the business; who've played the music themselves, like Ray Brown (may he rest in peace) say Diana's got the swing, who am I to argue??

And what more can I say about All For You?? This album sealed the deal for me. I knew I'd be a DK fan for life. Errand Girl for Rhythm?? Forget about it! How can you say Diana can't swing? Maybe they have a different kind of swinging in mind...(and I can't believe I just said that...)

(OK...Do your best to recall the Simpsons episode where 'Bill Cosby' introduced the sax-playing 'Bleeding Gums' Murphy character to his youngest daughter...

"Critics today, they listen to the crap music, and that gives them the brain damage , with the hippin' and the hoppin', and the bippin' and the boppin'; so they don't know what the jazz is all about, you see?")

[Bud]

Not wishing ill will on anyone, but frequent Diana critic Nat Hentoff has been laid off:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=98960029

[LuckySo-n-So]

Well, what can I say, the author of this article is typical of what I call a "music snob."

I won't go on and on defending DK (preaching to the choir). I think he underestimates Jane Monheit. I own a few of her CDs and find her voice very pleasant. Not great--like Aretha's, or Ella's, but she is definitely talented.

The problem with critics I believe is that they compare too much. Can a skinny young white girl from New York REALLY compare to Ella--the greatest of all time? How about comparing Christina Aguilera to Aretha? Two totally different types of music. NOBODY can touch Aretha--once again, the greatest of all time in her genre (which encompasses ALL of pop music, IMO)